(no subject)

[vivien]

The last I have to say about this particular subject:
Here is something I find exceedingly ironic. In the same week as the heated debate over protecting sexual assault victims from accidental triggers within fanfic with better labeling, I find myself wondering how many victims of sexual assault, who were discredited or disbelieved in court or out, are living through their nightmares again because a celebrity died who "was troubled, sure, but wow, so talented and so important!"

Power and money shape our culture, and when you add celebrity into that, the shaping gets even more extreme. I will always care more about quiet victims than I will powerful, wealthy celebrities. I don't care if that is perceived as speaking ill of the dead. Sometimes you must speak.

(ETA The previous statement is not meant to vilify folks who remembered Michael Jackson of their childhood fondly in recent posts. I am reacting more against those who have relegated the improprieties in his life (alleged and documented) to "details of his personal life" in favor of celebrating his talent only and "not speaking ill". This blogpost from Tiger Beatdown linked to me by a friend makes some really incredible points about this in much better ways than I can.)

On a closely related note, a friend, capn_ahab, wrote an excellent essay on Death of the Famous and Collective Grief that captures a lot what I was thinking about this topic. Go check it out.

And now I'm done.

Comments

[dotfic.livejournal.com]

But remembering the contributions of a public figure, just for those contributions, and not for anything personal, isn't caring more about the public figure than the quiet voices or the individuals who were victims. I think it's unfair to make that assumption.

[aberration]

I'd preface this by saying that I was outside the generation of Michael Jackson, and so don't have any particular feelings toward him. I don't know that much about anything, and make no assumptions or presumptions either way - legally, there are absolutely no grounds to do so, and otherwise I simply won't, because, again, what do I know.

However, it doesn't seem appropriate to me to refer to the possible abuse of children as "personal" or something that should be set aside because it was part of a person's "personal life." This isn't really about Jackson in particular, but as a sentiment, it's very off-putting to me.

[dotfic.livejournal.com]

But I'm not arguing it should be set aside. I don't set it aside, it's part of my perception of him, and he's ambivalent figure.

What I'm objecting to is the assumption that anyone who finds value in his music, and wishes to remember a very specific time period in his career, does not care about the quiet victims of assault, or cares *more* about celebrities than about victims.

It's making an "if...then" connection that doesn't exist.

[aberration]

As I was about to add to my comment - I'd agree if a person doesn't want to acknowledge these issues at all, then it shouldn't be assumed that the person doesn't care about it. I'd also agree that it shouldn't be immediately dismissed as "speaking ill of the dead" if a person does acknowledge them. I think Viv was more referring to the latter than the former, but that's just my impression.

That said, however, I still don't feel very comfortable with the characterization of such issues as "personal." To me, an affair can be "personal," but this, not as much.

[dotfic.livejournal.com]

Fair enough--I think we're maybe getting away from the main point. As I said, I don't believe in separating out the bad part of a public figure. It's all part of the same basket. It may mean some can no longer listen to his music and I respect that.

My main point is that V. seemed to be saying that if you state an appreciation of MJ's music from the early 1980's, even if you also acknowledge the bad things about him, that automatically means caring *less* about victims of assault than about celebrity. As if people who dislike MJ, and never felt a connection to his music, are more sensitive than those of us who feel differently.

Her thought about the survivors, I completely understand, and I think it must be very difficult, and I do care about that. But I fail to see how remembering the music from a specific time period = not caring.

[aberration]

I think she may have been responding to a perceived backlash against that acknowledgment, rather than the response to Jackson's death in general, but she'd have to say that, so.

[vivien]

I think she may have been responding to a perceived backlash against that acknowledgment.

Yes! This is exactly what I meant.

[vivien]

I walked away after leaving a post of postiness - silly me! :-)

I think a little more context is needed; having grown up with Michael Jackson in the background, his later behavior served, to me, as a betrayal, because I did enjoy his early music (much because Qunicy Jones is a part of it, and he, imho, is a huge part of who helped MJ's star rise). I cannot appreciate his music anymore, because I cannot justify it in my head. It's much the same as trying to appreciate Leni Riefenstahl's great artistic talent and ground-breaking strides as a woman in directing, but not being able to because she was an unapologetic Nazi sympathizer.

And yes, as shoroko said, I am reacting more against those who have relegated the improprieties (alleged and documented) to "details of his personal life" in favor of celebrating his talent. It's a normal act of deification of the Cult of Personality. People instantly forgot that Princess Diana had flaws, too.

So if you liked his music, never knowing the story behind it, or knowing a little but giving him the shadow of the doubt, that's not what is at issue for me. There are millions right there with you. I just cannot count myself as one of them.

[miraielle.livejournal.com]

There's a great blogpost on Tiger Beatdown here (http://tigerbeatdown.blogspot.com/2009/06/michael-jackson-celebrity-empathy-and.html) about dealing with Michael Jackson's talent, on the one hand, and obvious issues on the other, and how we synthesize them, or deal with them both.

[vivien]

I really liked that blogpost. Thank you so much for linking it.