(no subject)

[vivien]

WOW. What a good episode. So, I am a little slow. Jen guessed Molly was a ghost a few minutes before the reveal, but the only thing I had noticed was that the car had no airbags when it crashed, and I thought that rather odd.

Aside from that, I was really impressed by the way this story was told. I adored Sam explaining the "why" behind the whole mythos of ghosts and why they linger. I really liked Dean as well, but what is new here? Not much. :P


Two more chapters to go. I swear, I used to actually read quickly.

So here's the thing I have noticed about the book. It is incredibly derivative of Tolkien. I mean, by the time Padan Fain is revealed as the not quite human creature dogging the fellowship - I mean, the group - all the way to Fal Dara, I almost rolled my eyes. But then Lan's story was told, and I was just fiiiine again. While the Tolkien elements are strong - and usually that makes me grumpy and ready to put down a book forever - the Aes Sedai element counters with originality, and the characters are compelling. I want to find out what happens to all of them, so I am willing to forgive the Tolkien lifting. After all, is you want to lift elements of fantasy, you might as well lift from the best.

I even dreamed a Wheel of Time dream featuring Lan, Moiraine, and Nynaeve (as I see them from their Mways icons). I think they were on the run, and they were hiding at an out of the way office building which was, of course, overrun by Darkfriends. Whee!

Comments

[adiva_calandia]

Dude, is there anyone that isn't lifting from Tolkien? ;)

Though I admit, you're right about Fain. That's what was resonating with the Ways -- it's totally Moria.

[vivien]

Ahahaha... I know. I was waiting - JUST WAITING - for Mat to drop a pebble or something so Moiraine or Lan could say "Fool of a sheepherder!"

But I am loving the series anyway. Even Tolkien lifted from Finnish sagas and Norse mythology, so it's all what you do with the ingredients you ladle from the Story Soup

[genarti]

*cracks up*

Oh, man, now I am turning Lan's "Stop that, you village idiot" in the Ways into that.

It's a lovely image.

[rowanberries.livejournal.com]

I always kind of thought the Tolkein lifting was intentional - the whole idea of the Wheel of Time repeating the Ages over and over, so what Tolkein retold in our time (say the First Age) was a distant remnant of the Third (or Fourth, Fifth, Sixth or Seventh) Ages that had come before, and Jordan was writing how the events happened again this time around.

Ooooor he could just have swiped it.

?

[campkilkare]

Our time is the age before the First Age, I believe--there are references.

I don't know. I mean, it's better to have an explanation than not, but it still is borrowing from Tolkien at the end of the day, and I think it's a individual decision that varies among readers to say exactly when the metatextual references go too far for your comfort.

For instance, it's my personal belief that Jordan goes too damn far by half when he introduces the great tracker Hurin as "originating" in his story and being recycled into Middle-Earth only because he was present at the blowing of the Horn of Valere and thenceforth became one of the heroes reborn in every age. Other people don't have a problem with it/don't read the scene that way.

[vivien]

I love that explanation with great love!

[tenillypo.livejournal.com]

I never realized how derivative of Tolkien most fantasy books are until I went back and reread a lot of my childhood favorites after finally finishing LotR. I wish I hadn't, because now all of my memories of Shannara and the Riftwar saga are pretty tainted. Compared to that level of lifting, Jordan's is pretty light. As long as elves and dwarves don't show up to go questing with Rand, I can deal with Padan Fain.

[vivien]

Yeeeeah, I am very thankful for the lack of dwarves and elves. Seriously, it's not that horrible a lifting - I like to think of it as more of an homage than anything, because to be perfectly fair, Tolkien lifted a whole hell of a lot from Finnish and Norse mythology and sagas.

I am sorry your childhood loves are tainted!!! My mom started me on Tolkien when I was wee, so in that respect, I was lucky.

[genarti]

Jordan lifts from everybody, but there's a lot of Tolkien-stealing, yeah. (As other have said, less so than a lot of high fantasy books. But nonetheless, yeah. There are some very strong elements that show that... we will go with the polite version and say Tolkien was clearly a strong influence on Jordan's writing.)

Less so in later books, though, I think. As the series develops into its own creature, and becomes more embroiled in its own plots and less in the Generic Fantasy Epic structure. Though it's always a mix of the two, of course.

[vivien]

Yes, that's exactly what I can see just from the first (and knowing a little about what comes after). There are enough very original takes on the high fantasy rift in his writing to make me be patient.

I finally finished EotW, and I have to say - nicely done. I was pleasantly surprised by the ending, because things happened I would never expected (ie Green Man's death, aiee!). So now I settle into The Great Hunt.

Also, Lan is a big, stoic weenie. I loff him. :-P

[genarti]

*snickers madly*

He really is.

And yes, the ending of EotW surprised me pleasantly too with all the unexpected twists, and so did later events. It's one thing Jordan is very good about.