vivien | (no subject)

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So, fandom, how is Sam/Ruby (now that we have all the "socially conscious" facts) that much different from human/vampire sexcapades? Dead body, check. No soul, check. Hot, hot, hot, check!

It's just- no big deal to me. *shrugs*

And the funniest part???? Tonight on Ghost Whisperer, Melinda's newly dead husband, who's been ghosting about since their love is so endless, watched for a car crash victim to die and THEN JUMPED INTO HIS BODY ONCE THE SPIRIT WAS GONE THUS REANIMATING THE CORPSE. I laughed until I cried. Of course, Melinda and New!Jim get a second chance to fall in love (the price of new life was amnesia). I wonder if there is Ghost Whisperer wank about necrophilia? I AM THINKING NOT. :-P

Now I go collapse into bed. Whee. It's not even 9:30pm on a Friday. My life is exciting.

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The ~~current~~ perpetual outrage in Supernatural fandom boils down to "Sam is having sex with a girl that isn't me, so I am pissed off because he is supposed to save himself until I am magically transported into the show and/or I am projecting my stalkery lust for the actor onto the character and plan to marry Jared one day, so bitch better step off! Also, she is a complete whore and is not good enough* to give him an orgasm, which I don't understand is a biological reaction and therefore think must always (and only) be an emotionally fulfilling Event that is shared between loving, pure of heart soul mates who will be together forever!!!!!!!!!"

You can substitute "Dean" and "Jensen" in the place of "Sam" and "Jared" in that mess of a paragraph any time Dean has a sex scene, too.

Seriously. There are people out there discussing gender issues with the show, but that's not what ever causes the big hubbub.

*which is its whole separate gender issue regarding female spn fandom's hatred of women, but - like viv - I like to pretend that all doesn't exist because I deal with my own crap in real life and turn to tv and the internet for fun and games.

and objectification of hot people because I'm shallow and a hypocrite.

AMEN, SISTER. You know, I've watched, with not a little bit of alarm, this Internet-based self-hatred spawn out of control while masked under fandom. If I were an academic person who wanted to get into the sociology of the Internet psyche, I could write a book about how fandom women see themselves that would be a hell of a lot scarier than any SPN episode.

I also, to be honest, think it's partly an age thing. We're both hanging out in the age bracket of "WTF, I am way too fucking tired to invest energy in analyzing and nitpicking anything unless it's at work and I'm paid to do it." I remember being much more passionate and willing to debate back in the X-Files days, as well as in my early days of Harry Potter fandom. I'd get awfully riled up. Now I'm just "mortgage-P's illness-family stuff-advocacy and serious thinky at work-head explodes!" I have to save my "riled up" energy to use sparingly.

I just wish some of the fandom hue and cry could applied to the truly foul shows out there like "Wife Swap". Go yell about that, girls. Get it off the air.

(((HUGS YOU))) Thanks for this, B. Sometimes I feel alone and adrift.

I don't know you, but can I just say, "Thank you"?

Because, yes, as Viv said, Amen to that. Now can we please just all settle down and get back to watching the show?

:)

I didn't respond to defend fandom, I don't really know anything about SPN fandom and I don't care that much (though I can feel something for them for at least bothering to wank about gender issues - I'm looking at you, Heroes fandom). But when I read about this development, I did get a very headtilty-"well, really?" reaction, and Viv seemed to be asking why someone would feel that way. Honestly, it didn't seem like something I was being overanlytical about, that was just a first reaction that could even be based off a wrong impression.

I wasn't attacking you - like you seem to think I was (?) - and I didn't think (or say) you were being overanalytical. You said you didn't know much about (the spn) fandom other than fandom wank, so I made a comment that I thought was over the top enough to not be taken seriously that included info about how the fandom seems to work. I'm sorry you took it personally.

Edited 2008-11-15 19:42 (UTC)

My impression (and maybe I was wrong) was that you were trying to explain Viv's position on fandom. I was just saying SPN fandom is just not really relevant to my comments or thinking, and that was why. I really do not doubt that SPN fandom is as silly as you guys say it is. It just doesn't really have anything to do with the show itself to me.

Edited 2008-11-15 19:49 (UTC)

It's my impression of fandom, not Viv's (though we share major opinions on it). I try to stay away from it because there are quite a few people and ideas that make me raise my eyebrows higher than Dana Scully ever did. I can see where it looked like I was jumping into something to defend viv, and I hate that feeling of being dogpiled on when I'm trying to just have a discussion, so I can understand where you were coming from, but I totally didn't mean it like that. I didn't think there was anything to defend - you guys were having a decent discussion, and I was just trying to be a wiseass, which is my default operating mode. Here's the "dry translation" of my original comment:

There are a lot of whackjobs in SPN fandom, and they tend to freak out if any woman but them seems to have a chance at a relationship with the Winchester brothers - the characters or the actors who portray them. There are a lot of issues that can be discussed regarding the show (the material itself, and also the "politics" of fandom and where that "freaking out"/hatred comes from), but I prefer to just enjoy what I see because it's an escape from major issues in life that I deal with on a daily basis, most important these past few weeks being the worry that my parents and grandmother may not be able to afford heat on their limited social security benefits and not making enough money to help them out, and also my poor health these days.

It's just not as fun to say it that way. =P

I will also jump in and say that

shoroko has some great analysis on shows; she is even-handed and fair, and I respect her opinions. I was being flippant with my post, for the most part. I am not into the analysis as much, and she was being thoughtful when I was not prepared. I'm very much enjoying our discussion now that I am actually awake.

She is definitely "good people". As are you!

Darn you, I was editing that because I forgot something! =P

Here's my edited "translation":

There are a lot of whackjobs in SPN fandom, and they tend to freak out if any woman but them seems to have a chance at a relationship with the Winchester brothers - the characters or the actors who portray them. There are a lot of issues that can be discussed regarding the show, but generally when there is a big "To-Do" about the show, it's the whackjobs, who usually are female, hating on women - fictional or otherwise.

I prefer to just enjoy what I see because it's an escape from major issues in life that I deal with on a daily basis, most important these past few weeks being the worry that my parents and grandmother may not be able to afford heat on their limited social security benefits and not making enough money to help them out, and also my poor health these days. The whole culture of hating female characters (or women who date the actors) and demonizing them with slurs that maybe should be abhorrent to the women using them is extremely interesting to me, but right now I am just here for the pretty, and explosions. Because explosions are awesome. (sorry. I can't stay serious for that long)

I am quick on the draw, lady! You have to be fast to keep up with me during, you know, my hours of awake time, which have been very limited today.

Urg, I am sorry you're feeling so poorly. I know that has been a serious drag on your energy and spirit lately. Yay explosions!

=)

Total Recall is on SciFi right now. EXPLOSIONS, YAY!

Ah, okay. See, from the context I thought you were responding to me because you thought I didn't understand why Viv would respond to fandom that way, and I just wanted to be clear that what I was saying wasn't about fandom. Seriously, I rarely bother to bring up an opposing opinion unless it's to someone who I know is perfectly capable of handling it (which, as you'd no doubt know from fandom, is rarely guaranteed on the internet). It wasn't something I brought up in any other reaction post on my flist because I hadn't seen the episode and didn't really feel the need to, but here it seemed like the question was being asked, and I feel perfectly comfortable putting up my view because I know Viv is awesome.

Though I have to admit, it's probably not good that my go-to shows for escapism are ones I consider silly or just not very good, because then when someone tells me that I can just be "Yes! I know!" instead of being all "bah, I want my good show to stay good every single time, damn it!"

Yes, Viv is awesome. That's a subject we can wholeheartedly agree on without needing ten comments to clarify that we agree. *g*

I've got great people on my flist, and sometimes I guess I unconsciously take it for granted that my humor is understood when I post in their journals instead of commenting to them in mine, and forget that if you don't know me, you won't know that I'm always a smartass.

I hope to see you around Viv's journal again. =)

before I read the comment that just popped into my inbox, I want to say that my last comment probably didn't come out as politely as I normally would try to make it, and I'm sorry for that. Pain makes me less diplomatic than I like to be. You wouldn't be on Viv's friendslist if you weren't good people, so I hope I wasn't offensive.

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